In the chat room

Clinton Goa

dabral

dsilva

Govind

sbalan

shashi

Susan

vigyanvijay

Susan             Welcome to IWC chat on 18 February 2008

dsilva    hi susan: you can see i have logged in

dsilva    thanks

Susan   The topic today is “Taking Responsibility for

One’s Carbon Emissions.”

Susan   Hi DSilva

Susan   Till others join in, would you like to say

something by way of introdn?

dsilva    Do you mean the topic, or me?

Susan   About the topic and how you came to be

interested in it

Susan   Hello shashi

dsilva    I am an environmental scientist by training,

so naturally I am interested in environmental work.

But what I realized after attending many meetings and

attending several seminars is that a lot of people

talk about the environment but do not believe in

taking responsibility for their actions. Hence I got

interested in this topic.

sbalan   hi

dsilva    I believe in starting with myself: therefore I

take responsibility for all the carbon dioxide

emissions that result from my life-style--be it air

or road travel, energy consumption, and so forth.

Susan   Hi balan

sbalan   I am also interested in this topic can i have

any info regarding a core research doing by any

organization

sbalan   Hi Susan

dsilva    I am not sure what kind of research you are

looking for

shashi   Hi D'Silva I am a concerned citizen, would

like to do my bit for reducing my own carbon

footprint, any suggestions?

dsilva    Sure Shashi. There are quite a few things you

can do, apart from the usual ones--such as use public

transport, turn off electrical appliances at the end

of the day, and so forth. The first step you should

take is to find out your carbon footprint, if you

have not done this already.

Susan   Hello dabral

shashi   and how does one calculate one's footprint?

dabral   Hi Susan

Govind             Hello All, Hi Susan!

dsilva    There are any number of websites where you

can check--for example, carbonfootprint.com is one of

them

shashi   thank you dsilva I will unfortunately I need

to sign out for another call

Clinton Goa             Hello everyone, this is Clinton from

GreenGoa... logging in from coldish Stockholm

dabral   I have some work to save trees from being

felled for developmental work. I am not against

development but only want to see it to be a little

more eco-friendly.

dabral   Can some one tell me about carbon credits?

dsilva    There is a ton of material on carbon credits

on the internet. You could probably start with the

basics on Wikipedia

Clinton Goa             this christmas, i received a

christmas present which was a certificate stating

that 1 tonne of co2 was offset as a compensation to

my flights from goa to stockholm and back

Govind             Hi to doc dsilva...are there any

scientifically referenced methods for calculating

one's C footprint?

dabral   I have saved over 90000 trees from being

felled for construction of the Tehri Dam tranmission

line. Do you think I can earn carbon credits for this

work?

Susan   Internet info can sometimes be too

overwhelming- Someone like you can put it in simple

words

Govind             @dabral..but then how are they doing

it..without the transmission lines?

Clinton Goa             while i know that one can buy credits

to offset carbon emissions, is it possible to earn

credits by growing trees, replacing to low energy

bulbs, so that there is also a financial benefit to

carbon credits?

dsilva             DEFRA--the British government agency--is

aiming to standardize all the calculations relating

to air travel as different calculators often give

different results

dsilva    Saving trees unfortunately may not earn you

carbon credit. Carbon credit is a bit complicated.

You have to prove a series of things--eg, that the

emission reduction is real, that the methodology used

to do the calculation is proven, that the claims have

been verified independently, and so forth

Clinton Goa             yes... Dr. D'Silva.. I read about

that... but do you think that carbon credits are an

easy way for a rich person to pay off his guilt about

consuming more resources... but not really helping

the problem of reducing ones carbon footprint?

dabral             Govind-They just had to make the transmission

line above the tree canopy and use some modern

technologies. The forest lobby got the sanctions from

GOI . It was not necessary to cut so many trees.

Govind             hm....that sounds interesting...but to the

best of my knowledge...you should have

applied..earlier for the project....

Govind             or that...you can ask THDC to apply for

Carbon credits...and then use the money they get..to

carry out the modern technology work!

dsilva    Yes, Clinton. There is a big debate on the

very issue you raised: whether it isn't just a way

for the rich to pay for their guilt. Real emission

reduction should also include with some changes in

one's lifestyle

dabral   dsilva-There are Government / Supreme Court

records which give me the credit for saving the

trees. Would that help?

Govind             But now that its already been done..I dont

think u can apply for the credits anymore :(

dabral   Which are the agencies in India which give

the carbon credits?

Govind             the MoEF

Govind             thro other ministries and state depts

dsilva    Dabral: It is a start, but I am not sure

whether it will help you get the credits in the end.

I have calculated that the cost of getting carbon

credits--what economists call transaction cost--can

be anywhere from $25,000 to $250,000. I'm not sure

you want to attempt that

dsilva    Carbon credits are not issued by the Govt of

India. For this purpose, there is a separate UN body

Clinton Goa             i recently read that in kerala, the

govt was proposing a scheme to provide cfl lighting

at a low cost to its people by reducing the cost by

bulk purchase as well as claiming carbon credits for

its actions... can this actually work? if so, then,

it should be done nationwide or worldwide..

Govind             This site will help:

http://envfor.nic.in/cc/cdm/criteria.htm

dabral   There are several other issues like

controlling the forest departments from causing the

forest fires, planting trees in denuded slopes,and a

number of other initiatives which will result to

saving lakhs of trees in the near future.

dsilva    Clinton: There are several proposals to get

carbon credits for change-over to CFL bulbs,

including one in China for 10 million bulbs. But the

problem is one of verification.

Govind             at dsilva: but in India..in order to

apply...don we need to approach th govt...plz

enlighten?

dsilva    Yes, Govind the MOEF serves as the

facilitator. It has to grant what is called "host

country approval" at the initial stage without which

the project cannot proceed

dabral   i have no idea about how the machinery works

in India? But I do suppose there would be some

Authority.

dsilva    For host country approval, you have to

demonstrate that your project meets the "sustainable

development" objectives of the country. These are

fairly simple objectives.

Clinton Goa             dr D'Silva... if say, one took care

of the verification, what would the net reduction in

cost amount to? if these figures were made

available... there would be more incentive to go

ahead..

Susan   Can we come back to the issue of individual

footprint- what an individual can do- not with the

aim of claiming carbon credit though

dsilva    The MOEF actually is quite good on this

Govind             One of the best sites in India..for carbon

emission rates...and other CER stuffs that I've

discovered so far is Carbon Yatra!!

Govind             http://www.carbonyatra.com/

Govind             if u sign up for thr newsletter..u also get

the present rates and related things!

dsilva    Yes, lets get back to the original topic of

individual carbon footprint. Carbon Yatra is a start,

but unfortunately it relies on a British carbon

calculator

Clinton Goa             hmm.. i recently read that you can

reduce your carbon footprint by changing your diet...

becoming a vegetarian and eating food that is grown

closer to home.. if wonder if people are prepared to

make sacrifices?

dsilva    I am curious to know how many of the online

users know their carbon footprint

Govind             Sacrfices...that too when the lobby against

the concept of anthropogenic global warming..is

surfacing again....with scientific evidences this

time!

dabral   Clinton Goa _I think eating less would also

help a lot of people in the cities.

Susan   I dont

Clinton Goa             i dont! we need more standardization

first i suppose! but i would like to know where i

could find out..

Govind             Neither do I..do those internet calculators

actually work!!!? ;)

dsilva    It is quite ok if you don't know your carbon

footprint. You can make a start with one of the

carbon calculators on the internet. They generally

give you an estimate. That's a start. Unless you know

what your footprint is, you will not feel like taking

remedial measures.

Govind             hm..wud try one real soon!

Govind             Im sorry (sorry for myself for missing

this)...but I need to rush. Thanks for all the

info...regards...bye2all

Susan   Thanks and bye Govind

dsilva    My carbon footprint for 2007 was 23.7 tons of

Co2, which is higher than that of an average

American! Of this, 23 tons was on account of air

travel, mostly international. I have succeeded in

reducing my emissions by (a) changing my light bulbs

to CFL, and (b) recycling some of my garbage through

vermicomposting. But that's still not enough

dabral   Thanks and all the best. Your contribution was

informative and helpful. thanks again

vigyanvijay             hi, everyone, this id ajitseshadri

here!

Clinton Goa             hmm... but dr. Dsliva, is there a way

out to reduce air travel?

dsilva    So I plan to contribute about Rs 10,000 (the

cost of offsetting my emissions) to a village to

either (a) plant trees or (b) change to CFL bulbs or

(c) start vermiculture

Clinton Goa             i know travel by train is an

option... but not practical and more expensive when

in long distances..

dsilva    Clinton: that's a tough one. Take my case. I

need to go to Africa at least twice a year. How can I

get there except flying? But in a few cases, one

could take the train or bus instead of flight. In

your case, you could take the train from Stockholm to

Oslo

dabral   Hi. Ajit. We met at IIT D a couple of months

back.

vigyanvijay             yes,dabral,i think you are doing work

at mountains

Clinton Goa             but with such cheap air ticket

prices...esp in europe... i can fly from stockholm to

berlin for Rs. 230/- one way incl taxes ...

dsilva    Yes, that's part of the dilemma.

Clinton Goa             and the cost of the train to the same

place would be 15 times that price...

dabral   Yes Ajit. Welcome to the chat

vigyanvijay             all should attempt to reduce

footprint, with local initiatives for global

benefits...can we do it, what to attempt..

.

dsilva    I would be interested to know if any one of

you intend to check your carbon footprint through the

internet websites one of these days?

Clinton Goa             perhaps a carbon tax should be

imposed on items that unnecessarily increase your

carbon footprint... or perhaps avoiding travel by

online chats and video conferencing?

dabral   sure I will do that

Susan   Ajit welcome-you sure take care of a lot of

people's carbon footprint by your activities.

dsilva    France and the UK intend to introduce carbon

tax on all flights originating in Europe

vigyanvijay             yes, every thing counts, thanks susan

for your encouragement, i had told govind i will and

will join the chat,,, he has gone missing...

Clinton Goa             dr d'silva, i just visited

carbonyatra to see my footprint... but it just asks

me about my travel... nothing about reducing ones

energy in lighting, or composting... could you

suggest a more comprehensive webiste?

Susan             Videoconferencing as opposed to air travel is

already happening in many companies.

Susan   as a way of cost cutting but helps carbon

footprint too

dabral   Where can I get more information about the

carbon tax on flights in UK and other countries?

dsilva    Yes, videoconferencing was introduced in

Andhra Pradesh several years ago to cut official

travel and is working fine

dsilva    Carbon tax on flights is just a proposal. As

you can imagine, the airlines are opposing it. But

they are also getting ready to comply. A few airlines

already have voluntary carbon offsets.

dsilva    Folks, if you have not done already I

recommend you change over to CFL bulbs. I have helped

a village in AP to change all their bulbs and the

results are amazing. If you're interested in the

details I can provide you

Clinton Goa             honestly though... individuals

reducing their footprint hardly makes a dfference...

we need bigger groups of people to make any

significant changes..

dabral   Dr. dsilva - Pl. provide the details

especially how you overcame the resistance and the

extra cost of the cfl installation. Moreover can we

do anything about the tubewells?

Clinton Goa             But Dr. Disilva... while CFL reduces

your carbon footprint... its more toxic to

dispose...as it contains mercury, and unless it

becomes more price competitive... it will still

remain as a choice for the upper middle class..

vigyanvijay             DSILVA's recipe of CFL is good,,, and

has yielded direct gains for many...also in houses in

which you can see the electric meter turning the

consumptions are less... this was an interesting

observation done in a hostel at a college in TN.

dsilva    In the village of Kisthapur, after consulting

the village elders and the women's groups, we

collectively decided to change all the incandescent

bulbs to CFLs. So 14 watts CFL replaced 60 watt

incandescent bulbs. This will result in a 50%

reduction of energy in the village, or a total of 35

Mw hours per year, valued at Rs 87,500 per year to

the village. There was no resistance. Instead there

was a lot of joy because the incandescent bulbs

apparently rarely lasted a month

vigyanvijay             susan, you ought to make a white

paper after chat every month, such interesting

concepts that are being discussed!!

Susan   We do publish the chat transcripts online

every month See

http://www.indianwildlifeclub.com/mainsite/ChatTranscript.asp

dabral   Dr. Dsilva- were the villagers agreeable to

foot in the extra cost of the CFL

dsilva    Here are a few ideas that you can take with

you. First, plant at least one tree a year, if not

more. Second, donate a CFL bulb to a needy household,

apart from changing the bulbs in your own household.

Clinton Goa             unfortunately... when i switched to

cfl last year... the bulbs didn't last as long as

they should... because of bad power fluctuations in

the village i live in Goa. It may have reduced my

carbon footprint... but turned out to so expensive

that i now have to live with a mix of cfl as well as

incandecent lighting in my home

dsilva    Dabral: I got the villagers to contribute

just ten rupees because that is the cost of a normal

bulb. My friends and I chipped in for the rest of the

cost

Clinton Goa             that's a great idea Dr. D'Silva

vigyanvijay             dr.d'silva pl do be in touch whenever

u come to delhi pl feel free to be in touch , it goes

for all folks.. ajit.seshadri@vigyanvijay.org website

www.vigyanvijay.org

dsilva    The concept of donate a CFL is being taken

seriously by a school in Bombay where I advise on

environmental matters. The students have started a

collection. So far they have collected 125 CFLs,

enough to change the bulbs in a village

dabral   That is how the resistance was overcome.

Because when I tried to talk to some villagers to

switch to CFL they said give us the bulbs free. We

will try them first.

dabral   I like the concept of donation of CFL bulbs

in schools. This is something I would try.

dsilva    Clinton: I have a proposal to change bulbs in

one school in Goa in case you are interested

Clinton Goa             but what about disposal of cfl? we

have no system to take care of the mercury in them.

Toxics Links has been researching on this. Perhaps

the newer LED lighting technology is better than CFL.

But it's harder to find in the market.

dsilva    Yes, the small amount of mercury is a

problem, but I understand a lot of research is being

done to reduce this. In fact, Havell claims their new

CFLs do not have any mercury, but this claim needs to

be independently verified

Susan   It is good that action points are emerging

from this chat room

Clinton Goa             i would be. I'm back in Goa in mid

March. you could get it touch with me via Susan who's

on my group or contact me at klintvaz@gmail.com or

+919890936828 (India) +46762976399 (Sweden)

dabral   What is the toxic content in the waste of CFL

vis a vis incandesent bulbs

dsilva    I should also mention that the Rotary Club of

Bombay is thinking of helping slum dwellers to change

their bulbs as a way to conserve energy

dsilva    Dabral: I am not very sure. I have not seen

any statistics comparing the two

dsilva    Coming back to trees ... Any one interested

in the idea of planting at least a tree a year?

Susan   If we have no more questions, can you sum up,

Dr. D'Silva

Susan   Sorry go ahead

Clinton Goa             its about 4-5mg of mercury in CFL.

incandescnt have none. But they both also have lead

solder...which is toxic..

dabral   I plant about three hundred trees every year.

This year it will beDeodar trees in Tarakeshwar in

Pauri Garhwal.

dabral   It was very nice to be a part of this chat.

Thanks everyone

dsilva    Carbon emission reduction is a big and

complicated topic. But it helps if one starts with an

idea of one's own contribution towards global

warming, but understanding one's carbon footprint is

a good start. It is important to take responsibility

for one's actions which lead to Co2 emissions.

Clinton Goa             Thanks to the organizers for this

interesting chat. We should have introduced ourselves

too... -Clinton Vaz

dsilva    Among ameliorative measures, some of the

ideas discussed were planting trees and changing to

energy-efficient bulbs

Susan   Thank you everyone for a very illuminating

discussion

dsilva    I hope the discussants follow through the

promised actions

dabral             J.P.Dabral of Himalayn Chipko Foundation

dsilva    Thank you all for inviting me. Good to chat

with you all

Disliva...and everybody else too.. Clinton Vaz of

GreenGoa

Clinton Goa             i'm sure we will... thanks Dr.                   

Susan   To reduce a daunting subject to the

individual level- is the beginning of taking

action-Thanks Dr. D'Silva

dsilva    Good bye everyone

dabral  Thank you and good bye