Online Users
lilbumbee
saraswati
Susan

 
Susan  Welcome to IWC chat on "GM Foods and

Biodiversity" 
saraswati  Hello susan 
Susan  Hi welcome
Susan  Till others start coming in, may be you can

give an inrodn about the topic 
saraswati  Hello everyone. About todays topic - GM

Foods and Bio diversity. Simply put the future will

be either GM FOOD or BIO DIVERSITY 
saraswati  We are right now faced with an either or

situation. There is no middle path...if we say yes to

GM Crops today, we can say goodbye to Biodiversity...

Susan  isn't that too harsh a view? 
saraswati  No, that is the only correct one... 
saraswati  One which is brushed under the carpet by

those who have a stake in the matters... 
saraswati  When a genetically modified organism is

introduced into an eco system it contaminates the

surrounding ecosystem at the genetic level 
Susan  explain in more detail please 
saraswati  Thus a lot of the original species will

get contaminated...take for example the cotton

crop...where ever they planted GM Cotton, there is no

normal variety cotton available to farmers 
saraswati  The normal variety cotton planted next to

a BT cotton field gets contaminated through cross

pollination 
Susan  Do you mean to say -if a farmer decides to

plant normal cotton, it won't grow anymore in the

same land?
saraswati  through wind, bees, insects, butterflies,

human beings, water, animals etc 
saraswati  No it does not grow anymore...as has been

experienced by farmers
saraswati  similarly since the normal cotton variety

gets contaminated, it will have the GM traits...so

the pure species will disappear 
saraswati  And GM crops are coming up with terminator

technology - that is the crop will not regenerate as

it normally happens in nature... 
saraswati  so, either we have a GM traited

crops....or we will end up with seeds that die after

the crop...can you imagine such a thing
Susan  Which are the other major countries who have

adopted GM tech?  
saraswati  so each time a farmer has to go to the

scientist/ the company to get his seeds....which have

to be developed inside a lab 
saraswati  Mostly it is the USA...almost in all

countries including the UK, Europe and Australia,

Africa and Latin America 
saraswati  there is wide spread Consumer Protest and

farmers protest against GMO's
saraswati  The Companies manufacturing/engineering GM

seeds are upto so much clandestine work...recently in

West Bengal 
Susan  I am still a little confused-Have these

countries lost all bio-diversity?
saraswati  a state that declared itself GM Free (by

the state govt.)...Monsanto went and secretly planted

BT OKRA (bhindi) in the middle of an adivasi area 
saraswati  No, but in that particular crop the normal

varieties disappear - like in the US and Canada, GM

Soya, GM Corn, and GM Canola have wiped out the local

SOYA, CORN and CANOLA seeds 
saraswati  Like wise in India, we lost the local

variety Cotton... 
saraswati  And now they are bringing up GM Brinjal,

GM Okra (lady's finger), GM Sorghum...the list goes

on...   
Susan I see the point.
saraswati  These are still in the testing

stages...but if they are allowed commercial

production...farmers who do not understand this

high-tech.... 
saraswati  ...will plant these crops due to the

influence of heavy doses of advertising.... 
Susan  When you go buying seeds ( vegetable) from the

market -shops, nurseries,etc they sell 'hybrid seeds'

It reads treated seeds on the cover. The bhindi seeds

I planted came out real bad I wonder if...
saraswati  and also the advice of the Agriculture

departments, universities....all of which or atleast

most of which have people on the pay rolls of these

big companies...(underhand way) 
Susan  The crop was plentiful but the bhindi hardened

within two three days and were useless for cooking 
saraswati  Well Hybrid seeds itself have wiped out a

lot of our seed varieties...in a way hybrid is

harmless compared to the GM 
Susan  Hybrid seeds are genetically modified too? 
saraswati  because when you wish to go back to local

varieties you still have a choice...that is if a

farmer's neighbour grows hybrid seeds, this farmer

still has the choice to use local variety seeds 
saraswati  No Hybrid seeds are not Genetically

Modified - it is a physical change...where the basic

good qualities of both plants are taken and a hybrid

is created 
saraswati  It doesn't change the basic genetic

code...
Susan  I am really surprised that none else has

turned up for the chat. 
saraswati  The reason why Hybrid seeds wiped out

local seeds is due to the non-usage of local

varieties ...    
saraswati  It is okay Susan...people don't realise

things unless they suffer due to something 
Susan  Is it because local varieties do not have a

market? 
saraswati  Ten years ago...people didn't believe

Climate Change was happening... 
saraswati  No, not like that....i will explain...see

during the Green Revolution...Hybrid seeds were

introduced to increase the productivity of the crops 
saraswati  Then what happened was...farmers also due

to the increased profits stopped growing local

varieties....
saraswati  So, when you don't grow a crop for a few

generations...then there are no seeds isn't it? 
saraswati  So, in the 1960's we had about 30,000

varieties of Rice 
saraswati  But today, we are growing only 10

varieties of rice...mostly... 
saraswati  But in small pockets where they are

growing local seeds...especially in the adivasi

areas...we can still get the local seeds... 
saraswati  So, there are a few NGOs like Navdanya who

have been collecting these seeds and are maintaining

seed banks 
Susan  I believe that Navadhanya (Vandana Shiva)is

creating a seed bank. I wonder if someone is creating

a seed bank of local vegetables too? 
saraswati  But suppose if someone just throws a few

GM seeds in these small pockets...or in places where

we still have pure variety seeds...what can happen?

All the pure seeds will go.... 
saraswati  I think we all can contribute by growing

our own vegetables from local seed varieties...that

way we can preserve the seeds for the next generation

saraswati  and also stay extremely healthy....i do

think Vandana Shiva has vegetable seeds also 
Susan  But where does one get the seeds? 
saraswati  Why don't you go to Vandana's Navdanya and

get the seeds from there? 
saraswati  I know of a man in Bangalore who is

growing Rice on his Terrace...  
Susan  In A.P there is a big movement against GM

seeds- Is anyone creating seed banks too? 
saraswati  Yes, there are seed banks...I made a film

on that last year...it is called, SEEDS OF

SOVEREIGNTY
Susan  Yes, I will certainly look up Vandana's place

in Delhi.
Susan  Tell us more about that film please
saraswati  Then there is the Deccan Development

Society also have their seed banks... 
Susan  Hi lilbumbee
saraswati  Seeds of Sovereignty was first made in

Telugu to alert farmers on the Seed Issue... 
lilbumbee  Hi Susan   
saraswati  hI Lilbumbee...
lilbumbee  Hi Susan, Hi Saraswati 
saraswati  we have been speaking so far bumbee...do

you have anything to shoot?  
lilbumbee  No I have no knowledge on this subject...I

just dropped in to gain some  
saraswati  Susan, I think it is upon every one of

us...to stop this madness...and then there is this

issue of Health...
saraswati  Just last week one farmer was saying he

sold his Buffalo which became sterile since it fed on

the GM Cotton fields... 
Susan  Yes, I agree
saraswati  By the way, Greenpeace is going to do a

huge demonstration in Delhi on the 1st of May...on

the issue  
saraswati  they want people to take photos with their

name, place, written along with the caption , "BAN GM

FOOD/CROPS" 
saraswati  Written on a white Chart or something like

that held in front of you.... 
Susan  Growing our own organic vegetables-in pots

too-can be a start
saraswati  They plan to beam these pictures at the

place of demonstration to show that there are many in

the country who do not wish GMOs... 
lilbumbee  Well I have been doing organic farming for

last some years.....without much knowledge though 
saraswati  I think they plan to do that in front of

the parliament...so in case you like you can send you

picture too and spread the word...they will need the

pictures digital) by april 20.... 
lilbumbee  I use...cow dung manure and vermi compost 
Susan  Sometimes Organizations get bigger than

issues- the issue itself is not understood 
saraswati  Susan, yes starting in your pot is a good

way...you must nuture the soil to get good results 
saraswati  Lilbumbee...(do you have a short name?)

where do you do your organic farming? 
lilbumbee  you can call me bee...well I have my farms

near nagpur and have been doing that for last 12

years...  
saraswati  If you can read up the article on the

Silent Revolution about the farmer called Subhash

Palekar 
lilbumbee  I use...neem leaves and custrad apple

leaves for pesticides  
saraswati  Oh great...isn't that a great job? i am

planning to become a farmer too... 
lilbumbee  well it indeed is....less paying.....but

yes...very satisfying 
saraswati  Yes, that is the thing...also please try

to collect as many original seeds as possible and

make your own seed bank
lilbumbee  seed bank....ok thats something I will

have to learn about more and implement...  saraswati 

How much land do you have? 
Susan  custard apple leaves-I did not know they have

anti pest properties
saraswati  oh yes, there are plenty...
lilbumbee  well I have about 16 odd acres near

nagpur....plus about 300 acres of ancestral land near

Andhra Pradesh Border 
saraswati  custard apple leaves, chilli-garlic

concoction, neem leaves, neem seeds...cowdung and

urine mixture
saraswati  wow...bee you are stinking rich farmer... 
Susan  Bee, if you start a vegetable seed bank -local

seedsonly- I will put them up for online sale at

wildscapes.net
saraswati  would you like to grow a little forest in

the land that you own? 
lilbumbee  LOL...thanks to my forefather...I have

land....  
saraswati  Susan the concept of Sustainability is to

depend on local resources only...normally seeds are

exchanged.... 
lilbumbee  well susan..I will mail you for more

infomation on that later....I would be interested in

that     
saraswati  never bought and sold...as it happens

between farmers.... 
Susan  Thank you Bee   
Susan  We Indians are a thinking , intelligent lot I

wish we can make more people aware by simple means on

the ground- 
saraswati  and the climatic zones differ too...like

what is good for Nagpur may not hold good for the

Gangetic plains.... 
saraswati  Bee...i will suggest you to go for a

training camp with Subhash Palekar...you will love

the training...
lilbumbee  well about that forest thing...well I have

about 6 acres of forest near nagpur...and I just

bought another 7 acres near Tadoba National Park  
Susan  If Swedish flower seeds can sell, why not our

own - Local concept has to widen 
saraswati  Susan, I think every little matters - so

much as we would like to change the whole world, what

you are doing right now is itself a wonderful thing
Bee...when one farmer owns 300 acres of land, how

many small farmers are getting deprived of their

livelihood? 
saraswati  Sorry to say this, but may I say something

lilbumbee  ya that so true.... 
Susan  Teamwork is the fuel that allows common people

to attain uncommon results 
saraswati  I am thinking more and more about the

concept of property...  
lilbumbee  but thats what I got from my

grandpa....couldnt help that 
saraswati  the reason why there is so much scramble

for resources is that while some have it all and more

than they need....there are hundreds others who

cannot access the resources....  
Susan  Saraswati, to sustain bio-diversity in these

times, one has to think out of the box 
saraswati  For me to become a farmer is a big

decision because I am not planning to buy lot of

land...(don't have the money nor inclination to do

that) 
saraswati  i plan to hopefully get about 2 acres

somewhere...
lilbumbee  Saraswati...where are you from ??? Coz I

can gladly offer 2 acres of land to you...near

nagpur... 
saraswati  Yes, SUSAN you are right...we need to

think out of the box.... 
Susan  Farmer can be a state of mind too- I have a

small kitchen garden - Living in the megacity that is

Gurgaon where people have manicured gardens with

exotic flowers I feel I can make a point by having a

small organic garden 
saraswati  I live in Hyderabad...and Nagpur I guess

is too far...need to stay close here...I am involved

in too many activities...campaigns etc 
saraswati  Yes Susan...that is true to what you

say...but I am thinking about migrating to a

village...a few friends have thought of this idea of

reverse migration 
lilbumbee  :) well if you can guide me...I can take

up some experiment with the local farmers around

here...  
saraswati  And allso to grow my own food etc...unlike

you, I have no plot of land...I live in an

apartment...so i have no choice 
lilbumbee  Plus I do a bit of wildlife

conservation...and move around in villages bordering

the wildlife sancturies....maybe I can teach them

something with your help... 
saraswati  i need to find a small space

somewhere...and just growing my own chillies and

tomatoes in my balcony has given me a lot of peace

and happiness
lilbumbee  I would love to do that..... 
Susan  Good luck to you Saraswati-I am sure you will

find your two acres 
saraswati  okay bee...that is a deal then...I will

surely like to help...but we need to discuss that at

length... 
saraswati  so we stay in touch over email 
lilbumbee  sure...pass me you email ID...and I will

mail you ...mine is udayan.patil@gmail.com 
saraswati  s_kavula@yahoo.com 
lilbumbee  I wont be in town for next 4 days.....I am

going on partolling at pench national park...due to

this holi thiongy....but I will surely get in touch

with you after I am back 
saraswati  susan, i think this is the way to network

and try to do things in our own area... 
saraswati  right now i am working with some farmers

in Kadapa area...
Susan  Saraswati thank you for coming by-your passion

about the subject is infectious 
saraswati  and there is a friend who is working in a

different district...like that...we all can bring

change    
saraswati  bee you can get in touch with the Centre

for Sustainable agriculture 
lilbumbee  Thats great....a small push..can be

converted into a wave......a wave of change 
saraswati  in Hyderabad - they are working with

farmers in Vidarbha area of Maharashtra 
saraswati  I think they would be more than happy if

you like to take up the work in your area... 
Susan  yes, I hope that the concrete work both of you

do will inspire others. IWC.com is always there for

you to share your thoughts.
lilbumbee  Vidarbha ??....that means Nagpur...
saraswati  You get in touch with them - 040-27017735

/ 040-27014302 
saraswati  Call them after this saturday....in fact

right now they were conducting a week long training

on sustainable agriculture 
saraswati  so they are busy with the training right

now.... 
lilbumbee  ok
saraswati  Hi susan...sorry I was just taking off...I

plan to go see Vandana shiva...they also do trainings

of one week long 
Susan  Saraswati, one hour time is up, can we sum up?

saraswati  so, you could go there too...to learn a

little more...  lilbumbee  great... 
saraswati  Okay Susan since there weren't many we

just went off on our own ways... lilbumbee  even I

need to go now...I will get in touch with both of you

after 4 days... 
Susan  Thank you, bee  
saraswati  Okay good luck bee
lilbumbee  thanks for all the information and

inspiration.... 
lilbumbee  bye susan ...bye saraswati...  
Susan  Shall we call it a day? I will send you the

link when we publish the transcript. 
saraswati  You are welcome and bye... 
saraswati  Yes, susan, it is time for my Organic

Dinner